DEBATE: PASSIVE and self-serving approach to freedom remedy or ACTIVE and unselfish approach
EDITORIAL: The following debate between us and a member centered on a fundamental difference in approach between us and them. They pursue our materials for private commercial advantage while taking no responsibility to fix the problems they expose beyond merely educating people about how the scam works. We pursue it for unselfish reasons and try to fix those same problems.
This ministry focuses on personal responsibility but also accepting SOCIAL responsibility to fix bad aspects of the present government. The priorities are:
- Leave the civil statutory system.
- LAWFULLY stop feeding the beast with taxes by transitioning to foreign/private status.
- Educate people who are pawns of the system so they aren’t victimized by the system.
- Use the governments own franchise approach to against them. That way, you force them to help you destroy their system if they want to defeat their approach. This is part of the Sun Tzu Proverbs of War. See:
Injury Defense Franchise Agreement, Form #06.027
The person who this debate is with wrote the following document:
Citizenship Diagrams, Form #10.010
https://sedm.org/Forms/10-Emancipation/CitizenshipDiagrams.pdf
This fundamental difference of opinion is the only point of departure between us. Otherwise, our approaches to taxation at least are entirely consistent.
The “REBUTTALS” below are written by us.
STATEMENT:
I think we really need to stop playing the victim card for this scheme. It’s sovereign-citizen-esque.
Taking a position of responsibility in light of the knowledge of the scheme is a much, MUCH stronger position to take!
That’s why the law firm listened to me. I didn’t try to make any excuses, but legitimized the whole scheme and took full responsibility for my actions and the results. They respected that.
REBUTTAL:
The Sun Tzu Proverbs of war say that you should use your enemy’s greatest strength against them. By doing that, you force them to help you defeat themselves. That’s a much stronger position.
STATEMENT:
Saying it is identity theft gets you bum rushed.
Exactly!
Excuses sound weak and victimized. Nobody will entertain that.
I champion their system–talk about its brilliance and legitimacy while also demonstrating its limitations.
REBUTTAL:
Its not an excuse to define words to make them the buyer and the agent and use that to control them the same way they do. The system will never be fixed unless you force them to fix it by using it against them and thus forcing them to help you in destroying it.
That’s not an irresponsible approach, but a PROACTIVE approach to fixing it.
You seem to just want to game it to help yourself rather than taking responsibility to actually fix it. Irresponsibility is not the higher ground.
If I had even one objection to your approach, that would be it. Everything else I agree with.
STATEMENT:
I have just noticed a 100x better response from banks, lenders, accountants, lawyers, etc. When I don’t “fight the system,” but rather use it precisely while championing it as 100% legitimate.
I’ll let got dismantle its immorality. But on this side of Heaven, I am not going to complain about it!
REBUTTAL:
A beneficiary of its largess [such as yourself] never will complain about it. But that moral dilemma is how it got built to begin with. So you are aiding it.
STATEMENT:
I am realistic, and I have the skins on the wall to demonstrate success with my approach on a practical level. It’s human psychology of those who worship government. I remove their ability to be defensive.
I disagree. I have a bigger mission. What’s better? Getting inside the gate, or being stopped at the gate?
I talked to a guy for an hour yesterday who has been reading famguardian stuff. He immediately declared himself a nonresident alien and then declared himself exempt. He’s going to end up tarnishing the truth of the remedy. We can discuss that later.
People go off half cocked and are not willing to play the long game. They want a quick result. I think a quick result is unwise.
REBUTTAL:
We’d be interested in feedback on that subject. We specifically say not to pursue exempt be rather EXCLUDED.
https://sedm.org/Forms/14-PropProtection/ExcludedEarningsAndPeople.pdf
STATEMENT:
Now his account is locked by the IRS….
REBUTTAL:
Locked?
STATEMENT:
He’s going to get crushed. He has W-9s on file. How walk doesn’t match his talk.
They are not processing his return….
21 year military pilot and airline pilot.
REBUTTAL:
We say the walk must always match the talk. That is why we have a mandatory compliance process. We tell people to study our materials for at least a couple years before they take their first risky step, just like you did
STATEMENT:
They read a little bit of stuff, and have just enough knowledge to be dangerous.
I have gone slow and made sure my foundation is built upon a rock. Most build on sand.
REBUTTAL:
That’s not our problem. Impetuousness and impatience is their problem. You never had that problem and have stayed out of trouble because you take “the long game”.
We salute you for that, btw, my friend
STATEMENT:
The goal is not my victory, but to create a longer record that makes the road easier for others. I have $___Million in commercial loans under this [nonresident alien] status. Claiming the system is identity theft would have resulted in me getting exactly $0!
I have a squeaky clean tax transcript [as a nonresident alien living in the exclusive jurisdiction of a constitutional state]. That creates a real “Gee whiz moment” for banks, lenders, law firms, accountants, etc. You simply CANNOT do real business without those people in your corner. Not a multi million dollar business.
99.99% of the battle is getting people to realize they are foreign. The rest follows suit. That is why my efforts were stuck on that topic for so long.
RESPONSE:
The identity theft comes in only when they refuse to recognize your foreign status and refuse to allow you to operate in a private capacity. If they use the SSN outside the government for tax collection purposes even though it is just a federal employee id number, they are committing identity theft. I don’t object to banks using the SSN, only the government using it OUTSIDE the government for enforcement or tax purposes.
THAT kind of identity theft is what I call “weaponization of the government”:
https://sedm.org/disclaimer.htm#4.30._Weaponization_of_government
THAT form of identity theft essentially destroys the separation between PUBLIC and PRIVATE and makes you a serf in the process:
https://sedm.org/LibertyU/SeparatingPublicPrivate.pdf
STATEMENT:
If the election is an “office,” “agency,” and “property,” then it is a legitimate injection of their weaponization in this fallen world.
See the difference in attitude I take. I don’t play victim or complain. I accept it for what it is and deal with it on their terms. Anything less is pointless because anyone who matters will not listen.
*legitimate object
Again….if the office, agency, and property is theirs, they have every right to corn hole you up the kazoo!
REBUTTAL:
There is no constitutional provision which authorizes government to abuse its authority over community or trust property to work a purpose OPPOSITE of establishing government to begin with: The protection of PRIVATE property and PRIVATE rights. That protection BEGINS by keeping public and private separate. The minute they decide to use control over that property to make a profitable business out of alienating and stealing those rights through a franchise, is the minute they cease to be a government and become a diabolical satanic force that must be resisted and from which we should never commercially benefit. To receive such a benefit would be money laundering. See:
De Facto Government, Form #05.043
https://sedm.org/Forms/05-MemLaw/DeFactoGov.pdf
If they [corrupt government] allegedly have the right to cornhole, everyone has the same right to do it to them. If you can’t do that to them, they don’t have that right either. Equality of treatment is the foundation of the social compact. Any other approach is hypocrisy, idolatry, and sin.
“The mouth of the righteous speaks wisdom, And his tongue talks of justice [EQUALITY].”
[Psalm 37:30, Bible, NKJV]
The unrighteous implicitly pursue inequality or selfish advantage over others. That is what you are advocating now by not using their tactics against them.
STATEMENT:
I think what we’re doing is the Sun Tzu method…turning it back on them. And that is the greatest victory–knowing how it works. Equality!
REBUTTAL:
You’re turning it on them in the sense that you make them hurt and lose money. That may be enough. But that is a self-serving and passive approach to remedy.
STATEMENT:
It’s a big system. Scripture indicates that it will be Jesus who takes it down…not mankind. So there’s that….
It only prolongs the bad behavior. Wars aren’t always fought that way. Sometimes you have to go on the offensive. …to accelerate the victory and quickly end the pain.
STATEMENT:
But you don’t run into battle without the proper gear, training, or logistical support.
REBUTTAL:
That’s not what we’re suggesting. We already established that. You’re changing the subject.
What you are doing is using GREED to fight GREED. Two wrongs don’t make a right.
We, on the other hand, are using what you allege as their LAWFUL tactics to force them to stop those very same tactics and to not gain personal advantage in doing so. That seems like the only righteous remedy that takes the high ground. Greed is the low ground.
Covetousness violates the ten commandments.
Optics are important. Our tactics must be beyond reproach, or we bring reproach and slander to the God we claim to serve. God or His divine agents can never violate His own laws. If he does, the law of non-contradiction says He simply cannot be God.
“‘For among My people are found wicked men; They lie in wait as one who sets snares; They set a trap; They catch men. 27 As a cage is full of birds, So their houses are full of deceit. Therefore they have become great and grown rich. 28 They have grown fat, they are sleek; Yes, they [f]surpass the deeds of the wicked; They do not plead the cause, The cause of the fatherless; Yet they prosper, And the right of the needy they do not defend. 29 Shall I not punish them for these things?’ says the Lord. ‘Shall I not avenge Myself on such a nation as this?’”
[Jeremiah 5, Bible, NKJV]
“Pleading the cause” means CONFRONTING and PROSECUTING and PUNISHING evil, not simply profiting from taking money away from it or making the people currently profiting from it feel more comfortable about doing so.
Jesus came to call people to repentance. The first sinner he confronted to call to repentance was a tax collector. The tax office was the scene of the first such call. He did not come to promote comfort or prosperity.
He said the world would hate us, not love us, for being foreigners [nonresident aliens]. If the world loves you or ill gotten gain, there is a problem:
“Adulterers and adulteresses! Do you not know that friendship [and “citizenship”/domicile] with the world [or the governments of the world] is enmity with God? Whoever therefore wants to be a friend [statutory “citizen” or “taxpayer” or “resident” or “inhabitant”] of the world makes himself an enemy of God.”
[James 4:4, Bible, NKJV]
He didn’t come to educate taxpayers abused by tax collector Matthew about how to reduce their taxes or to get government loans for real estate with the STOLEN money, but to confront tax collector Matthew DIRECTLY.
What Would Jesus Do in your circumstance? We ought to be constantly ask ourselves this question.
“If anyone desires to come after Me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow Me.”
[Matt. 16:24, Bible, NKJV]
Is pursing commercial government privileges and loans “denying self”?
18 And when Simon saw that through the laying on of the apostles’ hands the Holy Spirit was given, he offered them money, 19 saying, “Give me this power also, that anyone on whom I lay hands may receive the Holy Spirit.”
“20 But Peter said to him, “Your money perish with you, because you thought that the gift of God could be purchased with money! 21 You have neither part nor portion in this matter, for your heart is not right in the sight of God. 22 Repent therefore of this your wickedness, and pray God if perhaps the thought of your heart may be forgiven you. 23 For I see that you are poisoned by bitterness and bound by iniquity.”
[Acts 8:18-23, Bible, NKJV]
“Better is a little with righteousness, than vast revenues without justice [Form #05.050].”
[Prov. 16:8, Bible, NKJV]